The Art of Personal Branding in Recruitment with Sean the TA Guy

Sean Allen (: 00:01

Welcome to the More Than a CV podcast, the podcast where tech and talent acquisition leaders share their knowledge and experience on improving hiring practices, innovative ways to approach hiring and how we need to look at candidates as more than a CV. I'm delighted to be joined today by Sean Kennedy, the TA guy. Sean's experience spans more than a decade and he's a real passion for employer branding and helping people navigate their own personal brand. You may recognize him from viral LinkedIn videos, which cover talent, attraction and navigating the corporate world.

Welcome Sean, thank you for joining us today. How are you mate?

Sean Kennedy (: 00:34

Good, Sean. Thanks. Thanks. So nice to have two Sean's and spell the right way on the course.

Sean Allen (: 00:40

100%, I'm all for it. It's always good to see a C-A-N namesake. Now it's a pleasure to have you with us today. I know you're a very popular guy online and in the real world as well. But it'd be great for our listeners who maybe don't know you as well some other people, just to hear a little bit more about you and your career today.

Sean Kennedy (: 01:02

Absolutely. So yes, I'm Sean. Been in Tarnoctetian for over a decade, both a mixture of agency and then obviously internal now. Started off my career working mainly kind of, know, engineering focus and then kind of spent many, many years kind of doing that across like different sectors, different kind of companies and eventually found my love for internal.

I became the sale agency recruiter sadly. And then I started to find that internal was just this really cool thing I really enjoyed. Started going contract into bed with companies, learned a little bit more about them, then found a place on that for a while and also found my love for employer branding.

Sean Allen (: 01:35

I'll come in.

Sean Kennedy (: 01:58

I guess, like building a brand and what that means for people in talent acquisition, how that can help to attract candidates in the right way. And that came from like just like failing fast from like loads of different companies and, you know, working with loads of people contracting, seeing the different nuances that different people have had over their careers or in their organization, sorry. And yeah, it's just something that I just really connect with. I connect with stories and I want to connect other stories to other people. So for me,

the style of the line for that kind of stuff. And I continue to do it now under the guise of Sean the TA guy.

Sean Allen (: 02:35

For anyone who hasn't seen we will share hyperlinks in this episode but there's some brilliant content and video content that you do. I guess there's two parts to really pick up on here. There's the employer branding part but obviously as the TA guy there's so much from a personal brand part so I guess to start shall we start on the sort of personal brand side because I think that's...

Sean Kennedy (: 03:02

Yeah.

Sean Allen (: 03:04

a really nice subject for our listeners.

Sean Kennedy (: 03:06

Yeah. So whenever I say Sean and TA guy, I wanted to set out on this journey about creating content. I knew I wanted to do. I knew that I sat down with myself. Sounds, sounds crazy, but I did talk to myself and say, what are you good at Sean? What have you got? I said, well, I'm creative. I've got ADHD. How do I monetize it? You know, I was like, I'm constantly thinking all these things to do. Why don't I put like paper to pen?

Sean Allen (: 03:29

Right.

Sean Kennedy (: 03:36

and actually start like creating some content. And I was like, OK, how do I need to come across? How do I want to come across? You I thought what's you know, when someone refers to someone, they refer to themselves such and such from there. Or have you seen, you know, Bob from accounts or you'll refer to someone in a certain way on that you've seen on LinkedIn or that guy that talks about TA. That's who I wanted to be. So the guy that talks about things.

make it a bit more personal. I'm Sean, the TA guy. You know me from, you know, talking nonsense about recruitment or just my, you know, my opinions on certain things. And that's all it is. I'm never a matter of fact, I'm always give my opinion, never the, ultimatum. And that's where it started. I started to then kind of discover that I really, really enjoy the creative side of things. When you've got so many ideas in your head, it's almost like a release, just taking one out and putting it on.

onto social media or put it onto paper. Like as a point, I carry this with me literally everywhere I go. It's old school, but you know, every bit of it in there is literally just silly little content ideas that'll pop up and I want to get down. And it's been really good. I've started to see this whole journey of what good looks like now. We've had like viral videos. Two years ago, I maybe do

probably a million impressions over a year. Now I'm doing like, I guess like it's over 30 million now so far, but since January 1st, which is insane.

Sean Allen (: 05:12

Christ you.

I mean, a million's a lot, so 30 million is, I don't even know where that ranks on LinkedIn in terms of performance, but it sounds very healthy.

Sean Kennedy (: 05:23

I can tell you on, it is healthy indeed. There's an app called Favicon, I don't know you've heard of it. So it's like a brand that wears a social platform where it can tell you ranking basically within your certain sector. So I am the top 3 % in the world on LinkedIn of content creators. Now the top 1 and 2 % are like Ryan Reynolds, you know.

Sean Allen (: 05:32

I know.

Sean Kennedy (: 05:52

posting like anything he could post a picture of like paint drying and he'd get like a million likes but it is Ryan Reynolds right so our smaller folks have to work a little bit harder to get into that kind of bracket but we're getting there we're working our way up

Sean Allen (: 06:08

that's, I mean, you talk about the numbers. mean, firstly, congrats, because that's amazing from sort of a million to 30 million. But then I can see why, someone who's watched a lot of your content, it is engaging it. You know what I mean? It's not super long, so you don't drift off and get bored, because I tend to get bored quite easily if something's too long. So that sort of short, snappy works really well. But you talk around...

Sean Kennedy (: 06:23

Thanks, buddy.

Sean Kennedy (: 06:33

Mmm.

Sean Allen (: 06:38

the sort of where you rank. I how many people on LinkedIn actually sort of post? Because one of the habits I try to get into is not post more than once a day. Don't know if the algorithms have changed, but it used to damage both. If I did, probably because the content wasn't great. It could be that. But I've always tried to make a very conscious effort to post. But how many people, because you look at the numbers on LinkedIn, how many people are actually posting on there?

Sean Kennedy (: 07:05

So there's interesting stats around this, which LinkedIn have released themselves to kind of let people know about like, maybe it's them wanting people to post more, but there's over 1 billion users on the platform. Now, like, comprehend that, like 1 billion, that's the seventh of the actual world. like mental numbers, right? And only 1 % of those people are actually posting on LinkedIn, not posting content. So...

In my mind, this is why it's one of the reasons Liz started posting as well, because I'm beating 99 % of my competition by just posting stuff online. I'm not creating the next Waitrose Christmas advert. I'm just posting things about my life and how work affects me and how it could affect you and how you could do these things. Nothing especially nuanced. It's just...

putting that pen to paper, that's a say yeah.

Sean Allen (: 08:04

No, I like that. like that. how, I guess linking back to that employer brand, it's a bit twofold to your personal brand, isn't it? Because on one hand, hopefully can monetize something and give yourself an extra bit of income. But for a lot of us, know, and the way I've often looked at it is it sort of keeps me relevant within the industry, whether that's tipping or picking up, you're keeping your name and your personal brand out there.

amongst people that may or may not know you. How do you see the personal brands then weaving into the sort of employer brand? And we can sort of touch more on the employer side as well.

Sean Kennedy (: 08:45

Yeah, so I tried to separate the two like, like the Americans say, you know, you've got separate church and state, right? So it's the difference of employer branding being how your company is viewed internally, externally. That is very much like kind of based on the culture, the product and all that kind of stuff. Your personal brand is how you wish to be seen as the individual. So the two do intertwine quite nicely because if you're going to start creating content about your company as an individual, you're doing it.

You need to also be seen in the right light. And you probably have to work with people internally to be able to do that, unless you're, you know, like myself, a bit gung-ho and just kind of do what you want on LinkedIn.

Sean Allen (: 09:28

for forgiveness not for permission that's the that's the old how the old time goes right so how do you see that then from the i guess that that intertwining because you touched on at the start the art of storytelling essentially um how do you see what your personal brand does

Sean Kennedy (: 09:30

That's the trick. Yep.

Sean Kennedy (: 09:43

Yeah.

Sean Allen (: 09:51

to the company that you may be working. I know you've contracted a lot, how does that impact say company A that you contracted at before?

Sean Kennedy (: 09:59

Yeah, so it's really good question. One reason because we're in this golden age of media. So everything we do or everything we look at has a story behind it. When you look at brands, have like a representative of someone talking about their product, like talking about coffee. I think about an espresso, I think about George Clooney. I think about Jordans, I about Michael Jordan. Yes, they're celebrities, they're really big names, but

Sean Allen (: 10:22

Yeah.

Sean Kennedy (: 10:28

It doesn't change the way you should do it. if you're sorry, stories are told by people, storytellers, and that's what attracts people to things, right? People want to feel connected. They want to feel like they're in the shoes of your organization. But so they need someone, a cheerleader of the business to start telling the story. And the best way to do that is by sharing content and getting to get enough things to connect to people like I've always said.

If you've got 100 people in an organization, you've got 100 recruiters because there's 100 different stories to tell. Like I don't necessarily always have to talk about my story. I could go and work with, you know, say a mother that's just had a child and returned from maternity leave. And I want to share her story so it can connect with other mothers so they know that they're supported in the business when they return to work or go on maternity leave. That's a great story to tell. It connects to that minority, right?

And you saw all these different kinds of stories. connects to people in a certain way. They're starting to envision themselves working as in your, in your business. And that's when the magic starts to happen. That's when you start getting like 10 messages a day, highly qualified candidates saying, Hey, look, I've seen your content would really love to join your business. Like in the roles open at the moment, or I've seen this job, you know, I put myself forward. I don't use any job boards, rarely use LinkedIn recruiter and

I do focus on like applications and what's, what's messaging me because it's worked, you know, it's, it's just, it's such a powerful zero cost tool as well. Like having worked in startups, the value of not having to spend a load of money is exceptional. So if you can turn around to people and go, we don't need this budget for this, let's, let's utilize it somewhere else that's more important, but I can take away from this and, know, do this for free basically. And.

It doesn't happen overnight. You've got to work through it. It's got to be consistent. That's one of the things I think that people don't get sometimes is that it's not going to happen overnight. You've got to keep doing it. I only really started to see the big, big results after like eight months to a year. Consistency is key with this kind of stuff. It can be your personal stuff as well.

Sean Allen (: 12:51

I yeah, I guess it's that message is you're gonna hit certain audience, but that's gonna grow over time by to your point, that consistency in it because people share, so people start liking stuff, it lands in their feeds, doesn't it? And they start to see it and start to take notice because it pops up more and more. So you start to look at it, don't you? If I'm seeing the TA guy popping up in my feed, for example, or company A or whatever.

Sean Kennedy (: 13:02

Mm.

Sean Allen (: 13:18

the more it happens, the more I'm probably gonna start taking a look, because it's coming into my feed for a reason, if that's the sort of thing that I'm interested in or engaged with, based on sort of algorithms. And from an employer brand perspective then, I guess, where do you start with that? So it's something I've worked with people on before. It's a lot harder, in my opinion, than people who know what they're doing, make it look. So they seem to just have this seamless.

to everything and then you're like, yeah, no, I could help with that. And then you realize like one little bit of content you're doing is really difficult to pull together and get all the right people you need, et cetera, et cetera. So I guess where's that starting point? Is it starting with areas that you're potentially facing challenges with from an attraction perspective or is it actually we need to cover a broader spectrum from the company to...

So we get movement on all sides. How do you sort of tackle that employee brand to start with, Sean?

Sean Kennedy (: 14:19

Yeah, I would probably go with the latter to begin with, like getting wider visibility on all these different things for two reasons. One, you're going to find out what works for you and what works well. Like I really like the fail fast approach to it with things. like, I'll go and try all these different things. If it's not working, cool, I'll sack it off. Let's go and mainly focus on this. And then you can secondly then develop on the, I guess the more, more needed areas because

There's certain ways to kind of certain things to focus on first, I think. there's flexibility, culture, product and company that are kind of in one and you as the individual. Those are the biggest things that I guess people are looking for. Flexibility. If you can visibly show people what flexibility looks like in your organization, it's the first step to them kind of looking at taking a job there, right? It's the number one reason. So I did a poll like a while back.

and the standout like won by a country mile was that, and this is over like 250 people, the number one reason people change roles now is for better flexibility. Or it's the main thing they're looking for. So if you're demonstrating that, you're giving people what they want to envision for the next role to begin with anyway. Culture, the million dollar question everyone asks in interviews at the moment, like it just seems like the buzzword, I think it just seems like a

acceptable questions to potentially ask. What's the culture like? I actually find this really difficult, this question, personally, because I don't think an organization has one culture in particular. Actually, an organization has many different cultures. And you should be demonstrating all of those, which is a lovely thing to do because again, it connects to different people. There's loads of connection points. I can I like that part of the culture. I like that part of culture. Cool. Brilliant. Product and company.

demonstrates your business, what makes it stand out, what the kind of, what the core selling points are really. Some people are like me personally, I love working at companies that have like these really cool brands and really cool kind of products. And a lot of other people do as well, right? You know, they sell, if you went to some really cool places and must you kind of want to tell people you like you work there and you associated with that brand. then most importantly, is you.

Sean Kennedy (: 16:45

Right. People need to know who you are at the connection point to the organization. When they think of your organization, they need to think about you. I know that person. I don't mind reaching out to him because I feel like I kind of know them anyway. And that's like another selling point for people because job searching is hard. Not everyone's an extrovert. Some people are very introverted and find it hard to do the outreach kind of thing. But as they feel like they're connected to you already, it makes it so much more of a warmer.

warmer way of kind of approaching the job search.

Sean Allen (: 17:20

I really like that and I think there's a truthness to it as well, isn't there? So the part you mentioned there around sort of many different cultures I've always seen, you've always got like an organ, especially slightly larger organizations, you've maybe got that overarching, this is our company culture overall. But actually once you get into different departments, it will differ slightly just based on, I guess what those individuals have built and those leaders have sort of built.

within it, so really calling that out rather than a generic, this is our culture, then you get into a certain team and it's not really what you see. It's quite disheartening as a candidate, isn't it? I was kind of sold on this, but then when I went through the process or got the job and started, it kind of didn't mirror that.

Sean Kennedy (: 17:58

Mm.

Sean Kennedy (: 18:07

A friend of mine says a friend of mine says this really well. He says the holidays got a match the brochure. And yeah, mean, guy Chris Woods use the recruitment marketing over at Mars. Brilliant guy. And he's like, obviously in recruitment marketing for a reason. Because this that point is like just hits home so well, but the brochure has got a match the holiday because someone turns up on day one and you've sold them. They're out of there. That's why when people ask me that question, I'm

Sean Allen (: 18:13

Nice.

Sean Kennedy (: 18:36

I'll never give them the typical answer because I think some people base their culture off their product. And that's such a mad way to identify a culture and base it off a product or something like that. So I like to of break it down. So in our team, it looks like this. MIS team, looks like that. And that kind of gives you a perspective like it is diverse, you know, and there is a lot going on.

Sean Allen (: 19:01

I think we talk about products and sort of branding piece. I always look at Lego. Whenever I see something Lego do, like, you want to work there just because one is cool products, they're sort of recruitment marketing, employee branding is just so spot on. You look at it and go, like, yeah, I might need to move to Holland or wherever their base is. But you think you start thinking about that, that could be achievable if we got to work for Lego, you know, because it stands out so well.

Sean Kennedy (: 19:10

You

Sean Kennedy (: 19:17

That was brilliant.

Sean Kennedy (: 19:26

Yeah.

Sean Allen (: 19:28

But even a smaller company, she can still cut through cut through that cat you see all right audience with the sort of right approach and I guess that's another part is how how do you measure success? So we'll see you've had huge success with you 30 plus million impressions this year, but there must be a part of it where you're looking at and going well who's my audience? So how relevant are the people that I'm reaching? So how does that sort of them?

Sean Kennedy (: 19:55

Mm.

Sean Allen (: 19:59

How does that cut through that relatability to the right people? Whether you're looking at it from your personal brand perspective or that employer brand piece, because I guess you've got the same objective there, haven't you, when you're thinking about wardrobes?

Sean Kennedy (: 20:10

Yeah, so I kind of break it down into a few different things like from the employer brand perspective, I will look at it say like success for me is do I have high quality candidates applying to my roles? Is there a good pipeline? Do I have a good funnel? And is it continuous? Yes, yes, yes. Brilliant. Cool. That's exactly what I was trying to do. Personal brand perspective. Am I creating stuff that people are engaging with? Are they talking about? Do they enjoy it? And am I seeing anything off the back of it like?

I speaking to one of the community managers, Danny, over at LinkedIn not too long ago. said, hey, man, look, I did all this content, I got all these likes and all these impressions. And he's like, cool, what have you got from it? I was like, shit, that's a really good question. Like, what have I got from it? The answer was, bubcus zero. Then I started working on like, what do I want to get off the back of it? And now they start to see like paid partnerships now.

Sean Allen (: 20:51

You

Sean Kennedy (: 21:06

Like I'm a judge at a conference next week in Manchester and all these kind of things is insane. And I'm starting to see like the real world benefits of it. And now when I go back and ask you that question, I've got tangible things that I can go, boom, boom, boom, boom. Here we are. he's like, OK, that's a better answer,

Sean Allen (: 21:28

No, that's nice. think it's, but it's a true part, isn't it? I mean, if I look at Selfish, the podcasts I'm doing, right? It's brand new. It's been up a couple of weeks, but just before we've come on to record this, the first guest, Marla, has message to say, I've actually interviewed someone who's just listened to the podcast. you know, that reach for her is success. there's an easy pitfall, isn't there, of that personal...

Sean Kennedy (: 21:35

Mm.

Sean Kennedy (: 21:47

That is it.

Sean Allen (: 21:57

branding and the employee branding to look at numbers as opposed to what you're saying is look at what's your objective, your outcome, and is it meeting that? Because you can have smaller numbers, but if that's a really high conversion of what you're trying to achieve, that's success. If you went from 30 million impressions to 100 million, you had more people engaging from like 30 million, you'd be like, well, that was my, you know, why aren't the other 70 suddenly?

Sean Kennedy (: 22:22

Yeah.

Sean Allen (: 22:23

getting the same output kind of thing outcome that you're looking for so it's I guess something to really look at the measure isn't it when you're doing either way.

Sean Kennedy (: 22:31

Yeah. And I would say like, if you're looking at growing an audience or a network as well, like people seem to forget sometimes you've got access to a hundred different connection requests each week. So if you want to build an audience, me personally, I sometimes split mine up between the people I'm recruiting for and like the audience I want my content to connect with. So that'll be like people in TA and brand managers are like things I like. And then like, obviously the stuff I'm recruiting for, right. And then that

kind of grows with that audience and so the right kind of people are seeing it. You continuously do that week after week and it's like, plus you'll get out, you'll get followers from the content you're doing. If people engage you a bit, going far. Good stuff will start to happen and I think that's when you start to see things kind of snowball, like more and more followers, more and more like interactions and like more of an audience.

Sean Allen (: 23:23

I was going to sort of normally have a question, but there's probably more of a conversation around this. I normally go to the end of the podcast, surround tips or advice you give to our listeners, but I think there's probably quite a bit we could, or you could share, say we, or you could share, it's the TA guy. So I guess starting on the personal brand side, for those that perhaps.

Sean Kennedy (: 23:41

Thank

Sean Allen (: 23:50

aren't really in haven't really tested that space or aren't sure how to get started whether that's they just want to build their own name in their industry that they're in or perhaps they're thinking about you know or maybe looking for a new role and they want to be a bit more visible to to a wider audience what would be your tips to them to sort of get get started because you make it look easy but then when i look at what you're doing i think i wouldn't even know where to start to to do what you're doing

So what the people start like.

Sean Kennedy (: 24:22

I would say go and break shit, go and fail fast and go and experiment. There is no right or wrong. What works for me won't work for you and vice versa. You need to find what your voice is, what works for you. And that only comes by trying all the different things, being creative, sitting down with yourself and what do I want to achieve from this? And then just start posting. There's no rocket science behind it.

Find the cadence that works for you so you don't overwhelm yourself because it is hard to sit down and create. Now, if you're not like a creative type, let's say, and you want to do personal branding, but you could start off with an introduction. You could start off by introducing yourself to your network. What you do, that could be a segment piece like the next three weeks. Then you start to introduce all these other things, but you'll start doing videos. People, I know people cringe at doing videos. I'm just, I must just be so.

not self aware because I just keep doing it and I'm just like I've got to the point now and you will get to a point where you don't give a shit what people think and I don't in that respect like I do I care what people think about my content but I don't care that people are like look at this idiot making doing a video of himself who's you think he is but that's just not gone now it used to bug bug me to death but completely gone and

Yeah, I just just get in there with with what works for you fail fast if something's not working get rid of it review it constantly and Most of all have fun with it There's a lot of boring noise on linkedin. You do not have to be You know a news reporter delivering like the local statistics you you can be yourself It's social media media for you to be social on so go ahead and you know live it and do it

Sean Allen (: 26:20

I like that and it is hard not to worry about what people think isn't it but I think there's getting to that point where I don't know I think as long as know friends close friends and family you know if they call me out something I'd be like okay yeah maybe stretch too far with that but bad about that I don't know why should you worry right because you can never please anybody can you and if they don't like it they won't tune in right

Sean Kennedy (: 26:26

course.

Sean Kennedy (: 26:37

Yeah.

My mate.

Sean Kennedy (: 26:44

Yeah, my mates take the piss out of me so much for this stuff. I walked into a pub the other week and one of my mates was like, oh, this famous guy from LinkedIn. And then obviously, just like you get torn apart, right? But, you know, when you start seeing the benefits of it, then you'll start being like, oh, I don't know.

Sean Allen (: 26:48

You

Sean Allen (: 26:55

Yeah.

Sean Allen (: 27:04

I like that. like that. And it's a nice way to start it. Introduce, reintroduce yourself to your network. And then that can be the catalyst for further stuff that you think about and do and mix it up from images, video, written, your style works for you, I guess.

Sean Kennedy (: 27:23

Yeah, you got to find your own style and everyone has their own kind of unique style. Like everyone is individual and different things work for different folks.

Sean Allen (: 27:32

And from an employee branding perspective then, so I know you've mentioned you've worked at lot of, you've worked at different startups. So naturally when you go into a startup, there's a lot of blind canvases to what can be done. So to those people that are maybe thinking about taking on that employee branding recruitment marketing task at where they work and they don't have a dedicated person that specializes within it, what's the best way for them to sort of...

start running employer brand campaigns for their company.

Sean Kennedy (: 28:07

Yeah, I think first of all, it's almost quite similar to the personal brand stuff. You've got to kind of break some stuff, right? You've got to see what works for you at the same time as well. You've got to know the voice of your business. How do you want to be perceived by your network? Do you want to be the funny guys? Do you want to be the serious guys? Do you want to be the people that you can connect with? Do that first. Then your content should come second. Because if you're just throwing a load of stuff out,

with loads of different voices attached to it. can be quite confusing for an audience. So from there, try all these different things like employee spotlights, flexibility in the workplace, the company product, the people running the organization, the different departments. You've got so many aspects of it. Utilize the different stories across the business and just see what works for you.

You can also start looking at the pain points really, like if you as a business, you know, you're not seeing, you're not seeing the right talent come through or it's not even just about talents. You honestly do like inbound sales can come from this stuff as well. And there's such a wide array of things this can do. it's not necessarily just for recruitment as a business employer brand is should be within every department helping escalate them. Well, they do because it also works for your internal people. It can help with retention.

There's so many aspects to it that can help support business and it's important to realize that if you see any areas that aren't performing as much, you can utilize employee branding within certain aspects. And I think a sort analysis of how your business is doing is important to begin with. But yeah, again, it does tie in very similarly with the personal brand. So break some stuff.

see what happens, fail fast. And I I said that a lot, but I truly believe that you failing fast and you're trying to be creative is an awesome way to do it. Okay, cool, did that, that's not working. I've reviewed it, I've looked at the data, it's not working. See you later. I'm gonna focus on this now. You crack on and you end up finding some really cool stuff.

Sean Allen (: 30:19

I guess if you don't have that mindset there, you'll never post anything and you'll be looking back in three months that you've not even got started, right? Nice, nice. And I guess for anyone that's listening that somehow doesn't know who you are, Sean, how can people connect with you or contact you if they want to pick your brain on how to grow from a million impressions to 30 million in the space of months?

Sean Kennedy (: 30:25

Yeah, exactly.

Sean Kennedy (: 30:45

yeah, my personal mobile number is, you can, I'm on LinkedIn. If you search for Sean the TA guy, happy to have chats with people. There's articles on my LinkedIn that kind of give you the basics on how to do this stuff as well. I'm always happy to talk about this stuff as you might guess from the call so far. I'm very, very passionate about these topics. And if you message me and say, I want to speak about employee branding and personal branding, I'll be there within a heartbeat. So let me know.

Sean Allen (: 30:48

you

Sean Kennedy (: 31:15

add me on LinkedIn and I'll be happy to help.

Sean Allen (: 31:18

No thank you, I'll make sure that hyperlink is shared in the show notes. But I think from me just a massive thank you for your time Sean because yeah I love chatting to you anyway but even better when you share with them. And I'm gonna take your advice and I will keep you posted on how that goes.

Sean Kennedy (: 31:29

Likewise.

Sean Kennedy (: 31:38

Yes, that's what we want. Thank you so much for having me, mate. It's been a brilliant chat.

Sean Allen (: 31:43

No, as always a pleasure and I'll see you soon. So, cheers show.

Sean Kennedy (: 31:46

Stay safe.